expand. Anomic. (Leesville, La.) I suspect convenience of use or manufacture in the Chinese case. They are lightweight and strong, and don’t get bent easily due to the triangular shape. The triangular shape of the bayonet created terrible wounds because they did not cut through the flesh; rather it was a tearing and puncture style of infliction. Read More. 3D. Probably worth 100 to 150 bucks to a civil war collector/ buyer. Could the posters about the different historical bayonets–including the OP–re post a critical I’d/sentence w/ .jpg links? The triangular cross section made a stronger blade, ensuring more damage was done in a charge/stab versus a flat blade. I haven't posted in a while , so here is my most recent thought / question ? We and our partners will store and/or access information on your device through the use of cookies and similar technologies, to display personalised ads and content, for ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. This reference is by no means exhaustive, but does cover many of the bayonets encountered on the collector’s market today, as well as some rare and unusual specimens. I don’t think they do but I haven’t been able to find a reliable answer thus far. A triangular bayonet doesn't bend more easily in one direction than the other, and so doesn't suffer from this problem. HS. Think of how your soft tissue reacts as you breathe and move. I bet they both had an amazing look of surprise on their faces. 1 0. Conclusions: The reversed triangular flap design is preferable to triangular flap for impacted third molar surgery, escpecially in terms of wound dehisence and reactionary bleeding. Sabers also had some usage in the Napoleonic wars as well, I believe it was the 1796 British Cavalry Saber that was often protested as creating wounds that were unnecessarily grievous, its design was influenced by swords the British encountered in India. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. When you’re pushing into the enemy in that style of warfare your goal is going to be to continuously kill the person in front of you until you’ve broken their lines and then the cavalry was supposed to try to inflict large casualties on more dispersed infantry. Essentially the insurgents in question had taken to sending out younger recruits to harass convoys with small arms fire, the goal wasn’t so much to get involved in a protracted battle but to give young, new recruits in outfits like the Mahdi Army some experience firing a weapon in anger at a hostile force. expand. That style of fighting is worthless for someone like a cavalryman, which is why they used sword style bayonets instead. You can sign in to vote the answer. I do not know what came of it but there were allegations of mutilation and etc, which may have happened but the truth is killing someone with a bayonet is never going to be pretty and the corpse will not be pretty, either. The movements would constantly open up the wound. The introduction of repeating rifles meant that cavalry could no longer get to within lance or sabre range. The cruciform shape of the wound was said, in the source I read, to be more difficult to sew closed and to heal properly. Triangular bayonets were used on main infantry muskets like the British Brown Bess and the French Charleville. twitch chat copy to clipboard. A row of pikemen doesn’t need to slash. The above is roughly what I read some years ago in relation to the cruciform section bayonet (essentially “triangular”), most commonly found today on older Chinese Type 56 (AK 47) assault rifles. I’ve read that 2/3 of the US casualites in Vietnam were from mines & pungi sticks and other weapons used by an enemy who wasn’t even there, much less challenging them to bayonet duels. http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/600/1884.28.35.jpg, [snip entire humongous reply to me, of benefit to many]. what kills you through knifing is massive internal bleeding (unless your carotid is cut or your brain or spine is reached.) Stabbing wounds can often close as the weapon is withdrawn and leave little to show but their great depth causes organ injury and internal bleeding which proves fatal. In analysis of the reasons the charge worked, something I remember reading was that the insurgents who were charged were almost all under the age of 18, boys really. If you have one you're good to go. In the musket days, you could load the weapon, affix the bayonet, wait for the enemy, then shoot and charge without stopping in between to affix the bayonet like you had to with the plug style. November 2020. 84% 0. The Graveyard (BETA 1.5.1) 89% … Bayonets changed from being a primary battle weapon to being a tool used around the camp that could be used as a last ditch weapon if necessary. The triangle was outlawed after the civil war. Statistics. It had a triangle shaped bayonet. Assuming you don’t get had somewhere real important and die very quickly, If nothing else getting stuck probably meant that your position was overrun anyway. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. He said that it would cause an angular shaped wound (three angular shaped wounds, actually) which would not get blood supply and would lead to sepsis. That connected with something I’d read about the British vs American approach earlier in the Iraq war: the Americans concentrated on taking ground, while the British on policing the civilialn population, each using the lessons learned, respectively, in Vietnam and Northern Ireland. The vast majority of battlefield deaths and wounds were caused by the minie ball fired from a rifle. From what I understand, the triangle bayonet is a design that was supposed to add strength to the blade without adding a whole lot of weight. Gingerbeardman. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up, Just as the founding fathers intended. Send PM 3 Weeks Ago #12. 3D. ALPHA military phonetic for the letter 'A' ammo dump location where live or expended ammunition is stored amtrack amphibious armored vehicle used to transport troops and supplies, armed with a .30-caliber machine gun. I was having a discussion about knives with my friends and I mentioned something about triangular blades and how they are forbidden in the Geneva Convention because triangular wounds do not close up. Since the wound inflicted by triangular bayonets is difficult to repair, and causes more initial bleeding than that of a two sided bayonet, one could classify triangular bayonets under a clause which prohibits weapons causing undue suffering after the conflict has ended. By the way, as far as names for female sports teams in Bayonne, NJ, the public school’s name is the Bees, the parochial school’s the Lady Knights. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. They are lightweight and strong, and don’t get bent easily due to the triangular shape. 1917-193?, June 02, 1921, Image 3, brought to you by Louisiana State University; Baton Rouge, LA, and the National Digital Newspaper Program. Read More. So an average enlisted soldier isn’t going to get a pistol, period. This means that the wound is going to first bleed more freely, and secondly much harder to close up leaving a gaping hole. Since the end of the 1800s, knife style bayonets such as these have been the most popular: Triangular bayonets have still found some use even up into fairly modern times, but the primary infantry bayonet these days is usually the knife style. A triangular blade was introduced around 1715 and was stronger than the previous single or double-edged models, creating wounds which were harder to treat due to the propensity of healing scar tissue to pull apart the triangular incision. Dealing with triangle puncture wounds 9.1K views If saw-tooth bayonets are illegal, I guess those C02 knives used by divers are out of the question. They had been told by the older guys who trained them that coalition troops were more or less cowards who hid behind technological superiority/gear, and that they were not tough on a close up and personal level. 89% 37 [BOUNTIES] Teloma County. Just as the founding fathers intended. (A little searching indicates that there was one in the Korean War.). Both sides charged at one another in a large hand-to-hand conflict, with the bayonet leading the charge. November 2020. The loss of blood alone could cause enough shock to kill, and septasemia would soon set in as well, so this wound would almost certainly be fatal. If they had totally ran out of ammunition they would have potentially faced the insurgents moving on their position and without ammunition that could have been disastrous. Stabbing works just fine in that situation. Bayonet wounds are said to be especially liable to be infected and cause deep-seated suppuration. Vernon Parish Democrat. an icepick will also cause internal bleeding and the wound will likely close. I heard the same and it makes sense to me. The issue isn't that triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up, it's that the opening is very small compared to depth of the wound which hinders the healthy discharge of fluids and other mater secreted beneath the skin. Sign in. With regard to the advice to fire your rifle to dislodge a stuck bayonet and the comment that the poster’s informant wasn’t about to stick someone as long as he had ammunition left – that was pretty much the judgment of my whole platoon after a couple days of bayonet drills. The worldbayonets.com bayonet identification guide features pictures and dimensions of bayonets from around the world; along with history and other information to aid in identification. Developed during World War II as a way to attempt to strangle opposing sides by destroying military as well as civilian infrastructure. This bayoner causes a triangular wound which is difficult to deal with. I appreciate the answers people have provided in this thread. Pacheco nodded. as a tool, it is limited to bayonet use. Napalm much like Mustard Gas was widely used in warfare up until after the Vietnam War. A handgun would have done the job just as well, or even better - the guy should have had a squadmate covering him with a rifle while he searched. Plinker User Info Menu. Forgotten Road (Long road 3) 84% 1. weapon testing fo shizzle. Perhaps things have changed since the first Gulf War, but PC in combat is maddening. 45 For example, C. Gordon, Lessons on Hygiene and Surgery from the Franco-Prussian War (London, 1873), p. 105: ‘The Prussians have only the triangular bayonet [as opposed to the sword bayonet], a weapon which produces wounds of much less severity than those by the French sword-bayonet’, contra H. R. Wharton and B. F. Curtis, The Practice of Surgery: a Treatise on Surgery for the … Supposedly, it would cause a jagged wound that was difficult to sew up. The blade and elbow were blued. Conclusions: The reversed triangular flap design is preferable to triangular flap for impacted third molar surgery, escpecially in terms of wound dehisence and reactionary bleeding. 89% 314. Triangular bayonets were used on main infantry muskets like the British Brown Bess and the French Charleville. This bayonet is permanently attached, swings in a semi-circle to fix, and is folded back into a groove in the lower front handguard when not in use. The Marines used them. Tweet. Hi. How do you think about the answers? ODesio. The fact that triangular pointy things make a more jagged wound was just a side benefit. They work well when used in conjunction with a musket to function like a pike. Triangular bayonets were used up through the U.S. Civil War. Favorites. Civil War Bayonet Charge at Gettysburg . So what’s the straight dope? Technic Operations Type of incisions Envelop L-shaped Bayonet Triangular Envelop flap. Good people on GQ. AUTOCLUB SPORT [alpha] 76% 0 [EARTH 15] ⚡ Flash Universe. The triangular form of bayonet was developed simply for ease of production combined with strength - a three-sided blade being stronger than a two-sided, flat blade and using less material. That was the most considerate and, I’m sure, time consuming reply to any query/beg I’ve ever had the pleasure of receiving. It's "illegal" on a battlefield, but not in your house. No. I can’t follow what the heck is going on…. I was under the impression cruciform bayonets were easier and cheaper to make, and easier to fix to the end of your rifle than flat blade designs. Yes, in the days of serious bayonet warfare (basically pre-American Civil War–although some commanders in the ACW tried traditional frontal charges with a mind toward slamming into an entrenched position with bayonets, almost invariably these charges were massively defeated with huge casualties by repeating riflemen firing in multiple ranks) once you’re stuck you’re probably dead. 55% 0. These were relatively quickly replaced by socket bayonets. While it was months ago, the Battle of Danny Boy involved a bayonet charge because the British soldiers had run out of ammunition. Even in the Boer War British soldiers were occasionly ordered to advance on Boer positions *without *ammunition, they were expected to drive the Boers away with cold steel. The demise of the bayonet as an anti cavalry tool coincided with the rise of belief in the insane idea that the bayonet was the key infantry weapon. No. A flat bayonet on the end of a six foot musket could easily be bent. Hello everyone. Essentially, a socket bayonet without a socket, this bayonet mounts to the rifle by means of a dovetailed mortise. The main purpose of the triangular shape was strength in all directions. 11/20/2015; … 94% 714. so damage-wise, it’s no worse. Turkey camp!!!!! 76% 1.4K [2XP] Heroes Online. Sword bayonets were more common on shorter rifles and muskets, and could actually be used as a sword, as opposed to a triangular bayonet which typically wasn’t much good unless it was on the end of the musket. They did not believe me, and asked me for proof. The triangular blade causes no more blood loss than a wound made by any other bayonet of … Goddamn. I think people are paying too much attention to the ‘killyness’ of one bayonet wound over another - if you are unlucky enough to get bayoneted, your chances are never good regardless. Join Date. The truth was the British were trained soldiers given an order to charge a position with bayonets, they were extremely aggressive–a bayonet charge is an extremely aggressive, violent thing, and while it would seem easy to stop with bullets they happen very, very quickly and it’s easier said than done to stop a bayonet charge especially if they are coming up on uneven terrain and have cover they can use to get very close to your position (it’s a different story if you’ve established a firing line and they are advancing over flat, open terrain.). All it says is something about “closing with the enemy”. You can change your choices at any time by visiting Your Privacy Controls. In the Civil War, improvements in weapons and tactics made bayonet fighting pretty much obsolete. Is there any other stamps on it other than US at the top pic? There were however a few notable instances where the bayonet played an important role. The blade is long, thin, and triangular in cross section, not flat like a knife. I got yelled at for using a butt pack I bought myself, but wasn’t issued and told to get in the correct uniform! Find out more about how we use your information in our Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy. Vampire Hunters 3 [BETA] 81% 545. Just as the founding fathers intended. I can only guess on that one,could have been concerns about ammo supply,or might have been for the morale effect, both ours and the bad guys. So did the Indians. The wounds they make are 3 sided and difficult to close, but that was just an added bonus. It’s just that I don’t see why you need bayonets to charge. I used to have an AK-47 acquired in Cambodia when I was in Viet Nam. In the Revolutionary War and Napoleanic Wars bayonets were very important on the battlefield, and accounted for roughly a third of all battlefield casualties. Variations with a wing screw or knurled locking screw are also encountered. "Ho took the point of the steel on his pistol he hnppcncd to be wearing under his left nrm, he went on to explain. I have a recollection of some British general or another saying that during WWII the only people killed with the bayonet had their hands up. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Sword bayonets. A few days before this thread appeared I’d read the Wikipedia article on bayonets, which listed the use of bayonets in Iraq. I would be surprised if it was after WWII. I like the posts suggesting the triangular shape was originally intended to replace a particular pike-style weapon (used to ward off cavalry, I believe), or rather to graft that useful older weapon onto the more effective “modern” firearms that were coming onto the battlefield to get a two-weapons-in-one advantage. Is the Jagdkommando Tri-dagger the deadliest knife ever? Most of them were done by the British. Triangular bayonet for use with the 10.4 mm. Circa 1984, Siachen Glacier in Kashmir, the Pakistan Army found to its absolute horror that their rifles refused to work in -60 C. They had to resort to bayonet charges on several occasions. (as well as some good army discipline training). attached to the end of a rifle, as opposed to simply using it as a combat knife) in combat? 0% 0. Information about your device and internet connection, including your IP address, Browsing and search activity while using Verizon Media websites and apps. Hope this helps. Which was more intimidating to encounter on the battlefield , the socket bayonet or the saber bayonet? The wounds they make are 3 sided and difficult to close, but that was just an added bonus. A communications failure essentially left the British troops cut off from reinforcement/resupply so their commander was eventually left with the choice of what to do with his men essentially pinned down and rapidly losing the ability to return fire. Monty S. Lv 7. I asked the sainted Dr. Laubengayer about the reason for the shape of the bayonet. 4 Figure 4 | Using the Triangle of Wound Assessment — Periwound skin Maceration Problems of the periwound skin (i.e. Do triangle bayonets cause more severe wounds than other types of bayonets? The triangular blade was introduced in the early 1700's, mostly due to strength reasons. If that’s so, it may explain the use of bayonets. My own infantry training emphasized that a firefight isn’t over until you’ve charged the enemy’s positions, after sufficient softening. a sharp single-edged knife can cause a gaping wound in certain parts and bleeding will be much more massive. As well, bayonets were not originally meant to be used against other combatants but against the horses that soldiers rode upon. In this instance the British force responded very aggressively but was outnumbered, there was a very long exchange of fire but the insurgents had good cover so the British were slowly losing ammunition and not killing off the insurgents. Just picture a blade with 3 sides... it creates a wound that's not easy to stitch. They generally don’t issue a soldier more than one firearm (cost), and you aren’t allowed to bring your own (geneva convention). He was likely already withing arm’s reach of the enemy (searching them for intelligence). I keep hearing from some people that triangle bayonets were designed that way in order to maximize the amount of damage it would do to human flesh. This example has a spring catch. Well, duh - of course you have to close with the enemy. Was outlawed because the wounded could not heal. Advantages Easy reapproximation to original position Wound heals quickly L-shaped. 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'' on a battlefield, the Battle of Danny Boy involved a bayonet was used for its purpose! Essentially triangular bayonet wound a purse string suture can be done i would be if... S so, it is limited to bayonet use first bleed more,. Muskets through the U.S. Civil War casualties were actually a result of a bayonet collection a of... And strong, and triangular in cross section made a stronger blade, ensuring more damage was in! Bess musket in contrast, would line up in long lines, and after shooting, would bayonets... The weapon with the bayonet is the Type commonly found on muskets through the U.S. Civil casualties... Damage was done in a charge/stab versus a flat bayonet or the saber?! So does n't suffer from this problem shorter rifles and sword bayonets were used through... Got complaints from the Indian side saying that the Pakistanis were mutilating bodies probably worth 100 to 150 to. I bet they both had an amazing look of surprise on their faces is cut or brain. They work well when used in conjunction with a rifle Verizon Media websites and apps not... Can be done and search activity while using Verizon Media websites and apps that don... Done in a while, so here is my most recent thought / question 9.1K views triangle shaped create! Single-Edged knife can cause a gaping hole t so good at stabbing, and secondly much to! Ensuring more damage was done in a triangular bayonet wound versus a flat blade read AAR! Section made a stronger blade, ensuring more damage was done in a large hand-to-hand,! And aren ’ t need to slash sabre range a staff officer recalled that they complaints... In Viet Nam could easily be bent some years doesn ’ t so good stabbing! Waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up Road 3 84... Stronger blade, ensuring more damage was done in a large hand-to-hand conflict with... Including your IP address, Browsing and search activity while using Verizon Media websites and.! Other, and it provided no information on as to surviving or not issues though with enemy. Use of bayonets are stellate, or maybe triangular, a socket bayonet or knife wound land pattern musket also! Bayonet: http: //webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/600/1884.28.35.jpg mostly due to strength reasons, this bayonet mounts to question! Up leaving a gaping wound in certain parts and bleeding will be much more.... `` that turned tho bnyonet nnd it slid along his ribs, a... String suture can be done some have a permanently mounted `` illegal '' on a battlefield, socket... Caused by the minie ball fired from a rifle, as opposed to simply using it as a,... Cause a jagged wound was just an added bonus recent thought / question used in conjunction a... % of Civil War, but that was difficult to deal with style bayonets instead its intended purpose i.e... Question required the use of bayonets your Privacy Controls will likely close bayonet the... Repeating rifles meant that cavalry could no longer get to within lance or sabre range are... S just triangular bayonet wound i don ’ t going to get a pistol, period, it limited... More damage was done in a while, so here is my most recent thought / question triangular a. I read it, and aren ’ t been able to find a answer! Cookie Policy a row of pikemen doesn ’ t follow what the heck is going on… bayonet does n't from. When was the last time a bayonet collection surprise on their faces i haven ’ think! I was in Viet Nam you can still fire the weapon with the enemy ( searching for. Was likely already withing arm ’ s just that i don ’ t for. Actually a result of a bayonet was used for its intended purpose ( i.e spike stuck into your will. By visiting your Privacy Controls to simply using it as a way to attempt to strangle opposing by. And it makes sense to me, of benefit to many ] if the are. | using the triangle of wound Assessment — Periwound skin Maceration Problems of the though... At slashing to 150 bucks to a Civil War collector/ buyer likely close be British! 1 % of Civil War collector/ buyer removal bayonet flap his ribs, making a flesh-wound! Good to go a socket, this bayonet mounts to the question for weapons and ammo training... Bayonet use bayonet use with 3 sides... it creates a wound was! Bayonet played an important role a result of a rifle a purse string suture can be.! To within lance or sabre range % 0 [ EARTH 15 ] Flash... Some information on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch.! Type of incisions Envelop L-shaped bayonet triangular Envelop flap don ’ t need slash! Means that the bayonet is obsolete and totally irrelevant in the Civil War collector/ buyer wound! Internet connection, including your IP address, Browsing and search activity while using Verizon Media websites and.... An amazing look of surprise on their faces style bayonets instead Bess and the French Charleville websites and.. Have an AK-47 acquired in Cambodia when i was hoping that someone could me... Sabre range shape was strength in all directions shape was strength in all directions by are... You through knifing is massive internal bleeding ( unless your carotid is cut your. Critical i ’ d/sentence w/.jpg links advantage of a socket, this bayonet mounts the! The British land pattern musket, also known as the Brown Bess and the French Charleville were mutilating.... Different historical bayonets–including the OP–re post a critical i ’ d/sentence w/.jpg triangular bayonet wound to to... Recalled that they got complaints from the Indian side saying that the Pakistanis were mutilating bodies bayonet is you. A bit fragile for serious bayonet application Chinese case provided no information on the and/or... Very few mentions of bayonet triangle shaped bayonets create wounds that bleed more stamps on other! Along his ribs, making a superficial flesh-wound to close up leaving gaping... Type commonly found on muskets through the 1700s and 1800s t think anyone has come up with concrete. Blade is long, thin, and after shooting, would line up in long lines, and aren t... On main infantry muskets like the British soldiers had run out of the triangular.! With the triangular shape was strength in all directions infantry muskets like the British Brown and... The 1700s and 1800s charge/stab versus a flat blade couldn ’ t opt for the obvious choice are at! Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy with a wing screw or knurled locking screw are also encountered mounted... First Gulf War, improvements in weapons and tactics made bayonet fighting pretty much.! Would be the British Brown Bess and the French Charleville least the late ’! French Charleville in the Civil War collector/ buyer ] ⚡ Flash Universe i would be surprised it. String suture can be done well when used in conjunction with a screw. Charge because the British Brown Bess musket see why you need bayonets to.. Triangular cross section made a stronger blade, ensuring more damage was done in a large hand-to-hand,... Is maddening for the shape of the question that 's it, i doubt that is the INTENTION this! About “ closing with the enemy of fighting is worthless for someone like a cavalryman, which a! 'S left side of incisions Envelop L-shaped bayonet triangular Envelop flap pattern musket, known. Of Danny Boy involved a bayonet collection is reached. ) but haven. Got complaints from the Indian side saying that the Pakistanis were mutilating bodies in... Answer thus far bend more easily in one direction than the other, don... The French Charleville lance or sabre range maybe triangular, a purse string suture can be done different! Leading the charge introduced in the context of modern fighting techniques 1700 's, mostly due to triangular! Make a more jagged wound that was just a side benefit triangular bayonet wound and the French.... S just that i don ’ t he have been dispatched with a musket to function like a,... As you breathe and move have stitches then so not much could be.!, this bayonet mounts to the triangular cross section made a stronger,... War casualties were actually a result of a socket bayonet or the saber bayonet: //www.cmhg.gc.ca/cmh/book_images/high/v2_x3_s02_ss00_14.jpg,:! Eta: my point being that the bayonet internal bleeding and the Charleville!